TOPIC: ESAP Proposal

ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #219

  • Preston Heller
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Not sure how a ROG takeoff applies to e-gliders. I haven't seen one. Do you have a link? Thanks.

Preston
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #220

  • Ryan Woebkenberg
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helletp wrote: Not sure how a ROG takeoff applies to e-gliders. I haven't seen one. Do you have a link? Thanks.


Not sure if this is a troll ;) or not but:



:)

Ryan
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #221

  • Preston Heller
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Oh, scale ships. Yep. They're welcome, of course. I would say the moment it lifts off the ground the time starts -- the same as leaving the hand.

Preston
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #222

  • Ryan Woebkenberg
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I wasn't very clear in my original post I see now. For eSAP (I hope it doesn't just become ALESSAP) does the time start when the model leaves the ground/hand/helper/dolly/whatever or does it start when the motor stops (ala the SAP it starts when the model leaves a ground based object).

Ryan
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #223

  • Don Harban
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While we mostly stay comfortable in our own little worlds, it is not impossible that an Old Timer or two might want to give this a go. I'd love to see a Dallaire or a Goldberg Sailplane once in a while.

As to alternative limits for FLIGHT TASKS, at one level, it doesn't really matter all that much -- at least relative to the kinds of flight tasks we have right now. On the other hand, an F5B plane will far, far exceed 200 meters in 15 seconds. Given the nature of the likely FLIGHT TASKS (not competition tasks), altitude switches are very inexpensive and very reliable. If a guy wants to meet competition requirements with an F5B comp let him have at it. If he wants to use an F3B plane to knock off a Flight Task, let him put a switch in it.

Happy Landings,

Don
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #224

  • Ryan Woebkenberg
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dHarban wrote: On the other hand, an F5B plane will far, far exceed 200 meters in 15 seconds.


Likewise in the SAP a person could use a F3B plane and a F3B winch and far exceed 200 meters on launch. If somebody wants to try for a 30 or 60 minute thermal task with a F3B model that can exceed 200 meters in 15 seconds I say have at it. I think only allowing ALES switches is too limiting. I think not allowing a guy with a Radian to do L1 unless he has an ALES switch is not very inclusive.

Ryan
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #225

  • Ed Anderson
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ryanw wrote:

dHarban wrote: On the other hand, an F5B plane will far, far exceed 200 meters in 15 seconds.


Likewise in the SAP a person could use a F3B plane and a F3B winch and far exceed 200 meters on launch. If somebody wants to try for a 30 or 60 minute thermal task with a F3B model that can exceed 200 meters in 15 seconds I say have at it. I think only allowing ALES switches is too limiting. I think not allowing a guy with a Radian to do L1 unless he has an ALES switch is not very inclusive.

Ryan


I don't see the requirement for some kind of altitude limiter as being a big issue. Costs less than a hi-start. And, BTW, it does not have to be an ALES device, could be an F5J type device or similar.
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #226

  • Ryan Woebkenberg
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eAnderson wrote: I don't see the requirement for some kind of altitude limiter as being a big issue. Costs less than a hi-start. And, BTW, it does not have to be an ALES device, could be an F5J type device or similar.


I guess I don't see why it has to be only ALES. We want this to be as inclusive as possible, right?

Ryan
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #227

  • Don Harban
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We either have a standard or we don't. The range of variance that you are willing to accept is really not much more stringent than no standard at all. Going back to the LMR planes, it is not at all unreasonable for planes to exceed climb rates of 6000 fpm.(I had an AVA that would exceed 4000 fpm). You may consider a 1500 feet to be well within acceptable tolerances. I do not. And in 15 seconds, a stock Radian is only good for a little over 300 feet -- how is that inclusive?

I guess what we do is not "all inclusive". Participants have to buy planes. And most of the people who become active in the program will spend more than the cost of a Radian on travel, food and entry fees. Really good switches are available for around $50. And inasmuch as it is not possible to undertake the program without other similarly situated flyers, those who cannot pop for a switch can borrow one.

Happy Landings

Don
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 1 month ago #228

  • Preston Heller
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ryanw wrote:

eAnderson wrote: I don't see the requirement for some kind of altitude limiter as being a big issue. Costs less than a hi-start. And, BTW, it does not have to be an ALES device, could be an F5J type device or similar.


I guess I don't see why it has to be only ALES. We want this to be as inclusive as possible, right?

Ryan


Yes, Ryan, we want it to be inclusive. But there have to be limits. As others have said, $50 for a limiter
is no big deal.

Preston
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