TOPIC: ESAP Proposal

ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #424

  • Curtis Suter
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Clearly motorgliders are going to take over the World but the question that remains unanswered for more that 4 years is why isn’t there an independant motorglider association? The ability to stand on it’s own merits, that’s the test of legitimacy.


Playing with words there aren't you tMcCann?. Impressions with the use of words means a lot to folks when they vote, especially the ones who vote with no real life experiences. So Motorgliders, E-Sailplanes, Electric assisted launch etc...

Politics I say. It makes it sound like they are flying around with motors on/off all the time instead of just a different method of getting the model in the air.

Curtis
Montana
30 ALES Contests or so.
Hundreds of TD String Launched Contests.
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #425

  • Ed Anderson
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tMcCann wrote:
Clearly motorgliders are going to take over the World but the question that remains unanswered for more that 4 years is why isn’t there an independant motorglider association? The ability to stand on it’s own merits, that’s the test of legitimacy.


Is that your approach to things? Let us be a divided community? Us vs. Them?


I guess you feel that hand launched gliders are not a legitimate branch of soaring because there is no hand launch SIG? But there is a national association that coordinates events for the purpose of selecting the national team.

And certainly slope soaring should be cast out because where is the slope soaring SIG? I don't know if there is any form of national association for slope soaring as I don't fly slope contests.

There is a national ALES League that tracks contests throughout the year. In 2013 they listed 60+ contests, not counting club contests. Currently there are 352 nationally ranked pilots. Contests such as our club contests are not listed as they are not open to non-club members.


Let's look at how the LSF describes itself. Let me quote the web site, for your convenience.

The non-profit LSF fosters and supports all phases of both sporting and competition activity for model sailplanes and encourages the advancement of model aeronautics and related aspects of RC soaring.

It says ALL forms of both sport and competition soaring. All forms! And ENCOURAGES the advancement. That doesn't sound like a closed minded, "us vs. them" kind of organization.

Electric soaring pilots, myself being one, don't see it as "us vs. them". This is soaring via a different launch method. Why would there need to be a separate association? Why would we want to have a separate association? How would that benefit the soaring community?

LSF is the Special Interest Group for soaring to the AMA. This is soaring and fits into the stated intention of the LSF.

Whether I launch my Supra via my winch, my hi-start, OneWinch, or give it a hand throw into a thermal or off the slope, it is all soaring. I switch the fuselage for an electric launch version, climb to 200 meters and go thermal hunting just as I do with the winch. Nothing changes but the method of launch.

Hopefully this sort of "us vs. them" attitude is not too prevalent in the soaring community. It would be sad to think that it is.
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #426

  • Larry Jolly
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F3J in the Desert...Enter the first day or get put on the waiting list...The skill level is also some what higher...
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #427

  • Preston Heller
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LarryJolly wrote: F3J in the Desert...Enter the first day or get put on the waiting list...The skill level is also some what higher...


What is your point? More us vs. them waffle. Sad, really.
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #428

  • Curtis Suter
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re·spect
noun \ri-ˈspekt\

: a feeling of admiring someone or something that is good, valuable, important, etc.

: a feeling or understanding that someone or something is important, serious, etc., and should be treated in an appropriate way

: a particular way of thinking about or looking at something


Now my thoughts:
Respect is earned. Respect can only be taken away by flaunting it or demanding it. The folks quietly in the background have the most respect. As an example, think of Joe Wurts. He has had little to nothing to say about this in an open forum but we all totally respect Joe. We'll continue to do so and when he speaks; his words will resound around the world.
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #429

  • Preston Heller
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eAnderson wrote:

tMcCann wrote:
Clearly motorgliders are going to take over the World but the question that remains unanswered for more that 4 years is why isn’t there an independant motorglider association? The ability to stand on it’s own merits, that’s the test of legitimacy.


Is that your approach to things? Let us be a divided community? Us vs. Them?


I guess you feel that hand launched gliders are not a legitimate branch of soaring because there is no hand launch SIG?

And certainly slope soaring should be cast out because where is the slope soaring SIG?

Perhaps you are not familiar with the League of Silent Flight and what it claims to stand for. Let me quote the web site, for your convenience.

The non-profit LSF fosters and supports all phases of both sporting and competition activity for model sailplanes and encourages the advancement of model aeronautics and related aspects of RC soaring.

It says ALL forms of both sport and competition soaring. All forms! And ENCOURAGES the advancement. That doesn't sound like a closed minded, "us vs. them" kind of organization.

You see, electric soaring pilots, myself being one, don't see it as us vs. them. This is soaring via a different launch method. Why would there need to be a separate association? Why would we want to have a separate association? How would that benefit the soaring community?

LSF is the Special Interest Group for soaring to the AMA. This is soaring and fits into the stated intention of the LSF.

Whether I launch my Supra via my winch, my hi-start, my OneWinch, a hand throw into a thermal or off the slope, it is all soaring. I switch the fuselage for an electric launch version, climb to 200 meters and go thermal hunting just as I do with the winch. Nothing changes but the method of launch.

Hopefully this sort of "us vs. them" attitude is not too prevalent in the soaring community. It would be sad to think that it is.


Some of us still don't have cell phones or computers and prefer to send their letters via the Postal Service. Some folks are stuck in the past and I don't begrudge them that. If that's what they like what do I care? It's their choice. Live and let live is a pretty useful idea. As Curtis and many others have said, once you're up there... But no matter what you say to those who hold to McCann's view, no matter how you try to accommodate them (preventing restarts, e.g.), they will never accept change. And it does not matter what the reasons are, their opinions are locked in. All I have ever asked for in this thread is that they listen to the arguments and weigh the pros and cons on the merits. And I believe many, many, have.

I am all for having an eSap within the LSF (I may be repeating myself here, heh heh) because, IMHO, it makes sense and is a progressive step forward. It will be good for soaring in general and the LSF. Throughout history it has been demonstrated over and over that you cannot stop an idea whose time has come.

There will continue to be silly pot shots but my optimism continues to grow that this will get done.

Preston
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #430

  • Curtis Suter
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Preston,

I think so too. Then a few years from now it'll be nothing but old conversations that only meant a great deal to get where the eSAP is and nothing will be harmed to the SAP folks. Life will go on and the LSF will have more activity in that time then it has in the last decade.

Curtis
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #431

  • Preston Heller
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Curtis Suter wrote: Preston,

I think so too. Then a few years from now it'll be nothing but old conversations that only meant a great deal to get where the eSAP is and nothing will be harmed to the SAP folks. Life will go on and the LSF will have more activity in that time then it has in the last decade.

Curtis


Agreed, my friend.

Now get a Polecat ticket before they're all gone. ;)

Preston
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #432

  • Ryan Woebkenberg
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helletp wrote:

LarryJolly wrote: F3J in the Desert...Enter the first day or get put on the waiting list...The skill level is also some what higher...


What is your point?


To be completely fair Mr. Anderson did ask when the last time a winch launch contest had a waiting list and Mr. Jolly gave an answer to that question.

:)

The sad part is that the most activity these threads see is the back and forth sniping. Some folks have brought up some legitimate ideas/concerns that don't seem to get a lot of discussion. :(

Ryan
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #433

  • Preston Heller
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ryanw wrote:

helletp wrote:

LarryJolly wrote: F3J in the Desert...Enter the first day or get put on the waiting list...The skill level is also some what higher...


What is your point?


To be completely fair Mr. Anderson did ask when the last time a winch launch contest had a waiting list and Mr. Jolly gave an answer to that question.

:)

The sad part is that the most activity these threads see is the back and forth sniping. Some folks have brought up some legitimate ideas/concerns that don't seem to get a lot of discussion. :(

Ryan


"The skill level is some what higher"

Preston
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