TOPIC: ESAP Proposal

ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #495

  • Curtis Suter
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The LSF is the parent organization and it would manage two programs; the SAP and the e-SAP.

I believe the founding fathers had not only the LSF terminology but also the SAP as they envisioned the possibility of expansions of multiple SAP's? If they didn't it would have just been the LSF.

Curtis
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ESAP Proposal 4 years 2 weeks ago #496

  • KEVIN ODELL
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I think Don has the right idea here. This protects the SAP and the ESAP both. Also, if you keep the same LSF basic log for both and modify the numbering system to EI, EII, EIII, EIV and EV. That way everyone is a member of the LSF and the particular program is recognized. You could even have an additional numbering system.....I - EI, II - EII, etc...or IV - EIII designating both level IV in the SAP and level III in the ESAP.

Kevin

dHarban wrote: Tim and Curtis,

This is not really much of a problem IF we distinguish between SAP members and ESAP members.

First, the only way that an ESAP can happen under any circumstances (taking into account the practical impossibility of gaining a supermajority ot modify the SAP) is to add a new Article XVII to the overall bylaws which adds and describes the ESAP. (The current SAP is Article XVI)

Second, Modify Article VI (Membership) to recognize SAP members as qualifying via Article XVI and ESAP members as qualifying via the new XVII.

Third, In Article XII (Amendments) retain Sections 1, 2 and 3 intact. (This continues to protect, unmodified, the existing SAP). And a new Section 4 that defines SAP members as being the only members qualified to vote on matters described in Section 2 (the current SAP supermajority protection). And add a new Section 5 that parallels Section 2 to describe amending Article XVII (the new ESAP). The new Section 5 would provide that amendments to the ESAP would only be possible for members who came via the ESAP.

There are some additional clean-up modifications that may be required, but the steps above would:

1. Add a new ESAP with steps toward identifying ESAP members.
2. ABSOLUTELY protect the existing SAP from being able to be modified by members who were not entitled under the SAP.
3. Would describe how and who could modify the new ESAP.

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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #504

  • Tim McCann
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Email ballots only?

FROM THE BYLAWS:
“Section 2 - The LSF shall perform all official functions and provide all official services by means of written communication and e-mail messages.”

“ Active Members will receive LSF mailings, calls for nominations and election ballots. An active member is defined as one of the following;
a. A member who has achieved Level II, III, IV, or V.
b. A member who has achieved Level I within the last twenty-four months, or has contacted LSF in writing (including LSF’s administration of contest) within the last twenty-four months.”

“ Section 3 - Proposed amendments must be submitted to the active members via individual communications, and mass communication announcement methods such as the Model Aviation and RCSE, and must allow a minimum of thirty days (30) days from date of mailing for response and consideration. Such dates must be so stated on the ballot.“

QUESTION FOR THE EXECUTIVE BOARD: How many ballots do you plan to distribute and by what means?
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #505

  • James Deck
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Yes, the ballots will only be sent by email to individualactive members who were interested enough to invest the small amount of time it takes to keep their LSF records up-to-date. Before the ballots are sent, a last pass through the LSF database will be made to ensure that as many possible active members are contacted. A newsletter (also a written communication just like a post in this forum)should go out before Christmas.
Jim Deck LSF President
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #506

  • Tim McCann
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jdadmin wrote: Yes, the ballots will only be sent by email to individualactive members who were interested enough to invest the small amount of time it takes to keep their LSF records up-to-date. Before the ballots are sent, a last pass through the LSF database will be made to ensure that as many possible active members are contacted. A newsletter (also a written communication just like a post in this forum)should go out before Christmas.
Jim Deck LSF President


There are members who don't have or want internet service and they must have the opportunity to vote. All "active members" which would include ALL L2s L3s L4s & L5s must receive an individual communication. If they have shared their email address that's great, if not they still need to be contacted including members of national chapters like the Australian LSF. I see no indication of awareness in Australia of the proposed amendment which will affect them. There should also be voting provisions including a printable ballot available on the LSF Websites (USA and Australian) for members that didn't receive an individual communication that can be submitted by conventional mail. The amendment and voting must be according to the bylaws otherwise it won't be legitimate and may be subject to reversal.
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #507

  • Ed Anderson
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jdadmin wrote: Yes, the ballots will only be sent by email to individualactive members who were interested enough to invest the small amount of time it takes to keep their LSF records up-to-date. Before the ballots are sent, a last pass through the LSF database will be made to ensure that as many possible active members are contacted. A newsletter (also a written communication just like a post in this forum)should go out before Christmas.
Jim Deck LSF President


I don't recall receiving e-mail direct from LSF in the last year. And I just searched my archive for anything from lsf.org or League of Silent Flight. Nothing.

Every time I reply to an e-mail it places that address into my personal address book. I just checked and there are no LSF based addresses in my address book. This tells me that LSF does not use the e-mail lists much. And, as LSF continues to do business via paper mail I can't think of why people would feel they need to keep their e-mail address updated with LSF.

I publish a newsletter every week to about 150 people and I have to do constant maintenance on the list as people change service providers. I have also been the Newsletter Editor for the Eastern Soaring League with hundreds of addresses to manage and that takes maintenance too.

I suggest a test message go out ASAP to see what quality you have in the e-mail list. It can be as simple as a "this is a test" message saying that LSF is doing maintenance on the e-mail list in preparation for a newsletter or ballot mailing and requests a reply to confirm your e-mail. Even if no one replies you will still see which addresses bounce.

You may find you get back 25% bad. You can also post the names of the people you can't contact by mail on this forum and give other members an opportunity to help you get the proper address.

This process should be performed 30 days before you plan to use the e-mail list for a ballot. You may find you will need to prepare to send paper mail to those who bounced and can not be located electronically. And I think you are going to need some volunteers to help. This is not a trivial effort since the quality of your e-mail list has not been tested recently.

This is not a demand, just a bit of practical advice.
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #508

  • Curtis Suter
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Wouldn't it tend to reason that if the LSF Down Under changed their constitution in 2013 from the 1984 version that they should have corresponded with the LSF-USA? I never knew of anything going on down under.

We can always find a reason not to do something. Looks like this is the way the LSF is going as well as our three branches of government. Lead from the top.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays

Curtis

PS I respect the elected LSF officials for having to make the tough thankless calls.
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #509

  • Ed Anderson
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Curtis,

Are they required to correspond with LSF? If their local constitution does not impact LSF and does not violate any elements of LSF, why would they need to correspond?

Not saying they wouldn't but is it required?
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #510

  • Curtis Suter
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eAnderson wrote: Curtis,

Are they required to correspond with LSF? If their local constitution does not impact LSF and does not violate any elements of LSF, why would they need to correspond?

Not saying they wouldn't but is it required?


No idea, but if they don't have to contact us why do we need to contact them for a change that does not affect them? Or does it?

As you can tell I am fed up with this; signing off to have a good holiday season.
And or if should could words are what are frustrating me. They are Lawyer speak that people can interpret and are either way. Just like President Clinton did not have sex with that lady in the sanctity of the Oval office, right?

Curtis
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #511

  • Curtis Suter
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Timm,
What are your recommendations and procedures to get an electric parallel program incorporated into the LSF?

Thanks
Curtis



tMcCann wrote: Email ballots only?

FROM THE BYLAWS:
“Section 2 - The LSF shall perform all official functions and provide all official services by means of written communication and e-mail messages.”

“ Active Members will receive LSF mailings, calls for nominations and election ballots. An active member is defined as one of the following;
a. A member who has achieved Level II, III, IV, or V.
b. A member who has achieved Level I within the last twenty-four months, or has contacted LSF in writing (including LSF’s administration of contest) within the last twenty-four months.”

“ Section 3 - Proposed amendments must be submitted to the active members via individual communications, and mass communication announcement methods such as the Model Aviation and RCSE, and must allow a minimum of thirty days (30) days from date of mailing for response and consideration. Such dates must be so stated on the ballot.“

QUESTION FOR THE EXECUTIVE BOARD: How many ballots do you plan to distribute and by what means?

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