TOPIC: ESAP Proposal

Getting the word out 3 years 11 months ago #543

  • Ed Anderson
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eAnderson wrote: When did you get the newsletter e-mail?

I have not received anything yet.


Just received mine.
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Getting the word out 3 years 11 months ago #544

  • Ed Anderson
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eAnderson wrote: When did you get the newsletter e-mail?

I have not received anything yet.


Just received mine. I guess it is taking a little time to get them out. After all, there must be thousands to send and unless you are using a service it takes a time to get them sent.
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #545

  • KEVIN ODELL
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First of all, for a volunteer organization based on something that is suppose to be a hobby and fun, there is a whole lot of bellyaching and BS going on. It's a HOBBY!!!....and if you can't put it in that perspective, you need to get a life.

Now lets crunch a few numbers.....based on the approximately 8250 folks in the database....based on Staples.

post card printing.......$700.00
inkjet labels...............$175.00
ink............................$100.00
postage...................$2722.50

Total...............$3697.50

I think the organizations funds can go to better uses, if there is that much in the treasury, and if there isn't, who is willing to foot the bill. You can't use bulk mail, because that requires most of the pieces going to the same zip codes. Not to mention, from past experience, the BEST return you can hope to get will be 10% give or take a couple of percent. Not to mention, a large percentage of the addresses in the database will no longer be valid, so you still won't be able to contact everyone. So use the internet.........

In the little over 20 years that I have been a member we have added only about 1600 new members, which for any symbalance of growth is bad at best. Here we have the opportunity to add to the membership in a large way......remember this is a HOBBY that is suppose to be FUN.......let's be inclusive and not exclusive. I'm voting for the proposal.
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #546

  • Tim McCann
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n0irw wrote: First of all, for a volunteer organization based on something that is suppose to be a hobby and fun, there is a whole lot of bellyaching and BS going on. It's a HOBBY!!!....and if you can't put it in that perspective, you need to get a life.

Now lets crunch a few numbers.....based on the approximately 8250 folks in the database....based on Staples.

post card printing.......$700.00
inkjet labels...............$175.00
ink............................$100.00
postage...................$2722.50

Total...............$3697.50

I think the organizations funds can go to better uses, if there is that much in the treasury, and if there isn't, who is willing to foot the bill. You can't use bulk mail, because that requires most of the pieces going to the same zip codes. Not to mention, from past experience, the BEST return you can hope to get will be 10% give or take a couple of percent. Not to mention, a large percentage of the addresses in the database will no longer be valid, so you still won't be able to contact everyone. So use the internet.........

In the little over 20 years that I have been a member we have added only about 1600 new members, which for any symbalance of growth is bad at best. Here we have the opportunity to add to the membership in a large way......remember this is a HOBBY that is suppose to be FUN.......let's be inclusive and not exclusive. I'm voting for the proposal.

Are you saying ignore the bylaws? Deny a vote to non-internet members?

The bulk of traditional achievers joined in the 70s and 80s and are less likely to be internet connected. Sounds like targeted disenfranchisement to me. Maybe importers of cheap parkflyer foamie motorgliders should help foot the postage bill...
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #547

  • Gil Gauger
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For the past two plus years I have been making efforts to acquire current contact information for the purposes of updating the LSF database. (The ESAP was only one, and not the primary, of many motivations for this.) Gleaning from event registrations, merchandise and raffle ticket sales, personal contact, Toledo Expo, etc. along with the website, a very significant update has been possible. I currently have on my desk the info for the three living members of my local club who have had no direct contact with LSF in about twenty years. They are eligible to vote and I have urged them to use the member update link on this website, and I am watching to see if they do so. If they haven't by the time ballots are to be sent I will offer to do it for them. I urge every member who is interested in this issue, pro or con, to do something similar. I have no hand in the mass email process except for this effort to get as many valid addresses as possible and as an officer I view that goal as an extremely high priority. Please understand that the goal is 100% contact. But even judging by own experience of moving, 911 readdressing, dropping the landline, changing phone companies, multiple bank accounts.......and ...... after ten+ years I still find someone or some institution I have not notified. Notice the "that is my responsibility" part of that fact. Spread the word....

Gil Gauger
LSF Treasurer
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #548

  • Don Harban
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Frankly, I think making up the rules as we go along is very wrong. Ignoring our own bylaws may come under the category of "get a life" for some of us. It is not the way to run an organization that expects to remain relevant for any period of time.

Hopefully, the LSF has a significant number of email addresses that it can rely on as being current and accurate. If it does not, it brings into doubt the validity of planning to use email as the sole source of communication in the first place. Using our base of email addresses will reduce the total number of snail mail contacts that will be required. It might be useful for us to be informed as to how many members our leadership is expecting to contact by email. If that number does not represent a significant part of the total membership, it would strongly suggest that additional measures should be undertaken to communicate with the members as required by the bylaws.

Ignoring or overlooking any substantial part of the existing membership is disrespectful to the efforts they made by following the rules to join in the first place. No one expects perfect compliance. But cavalierly tossing off the spirit and letter of the bylaws without making a good faith effort to contact as many members as possible regarding the implementation of THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CHANGE in the organization's history is simply disrespectful and wrong. And it will seriously undermine the credibility and integrity of the organization and its leaders in the future.

It is clear that those who are seeking approval of this change have a "special" interest in its implementation and perhaps they should consider bearing the cost of additional measures necessary to ensure that it is done in the spirit of the bylaws. While I am not inclined to support the proposal, I will pledge $200 to fund an organized effort to see that it is done right if others who feel strongly about the importance of this will also step up and fully fund that effort.

Happy Landings,

Don
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #549

  • Preston Heller
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LarryJolly wrote: Mr Deck, and the Board
I just read your proposal....seriously.... is this the best you could do after all the months of discussion..
You could have done something fun for the Electric guys but instead you did the obvious.
Why were you not honest in the first place.. You never intended for there to be a separate E program.
You were so burned when we shut down the SAP change, that you strategized a different route to the same goal.
Your motives are clear and obvious, this is a two step process to get the change you wanted in the first place.
It is obvious that if this passes, your next vote will be to combine the two programs since they are exactly the same except method of launch.
Larry Jolly 3579


The quoted post is filled with denigration ("is this the best you can do"), assumptions ("you never intended there to be a separate e-program...you were so bummed out...you were not honest...you strategized a different route...your motives are clear and obvious) and even some crystal ball projecting (it is obvious tjhat if this passes, your next vote will be to combine the two programs). All of this is unsubstantiated OPINION presented as if it were fact. It is an appeal to emotion rather than logic, an approach that is dubious at best and in my humble opinion, not in the best interest of the LSF and its future.

I welcome a good debate and have been known to be won over to the other side, but I do not take kindly to what is tantamount to school yard bullying and empty rhetoric. As I have said before, give me some actual facts and I will be more than happy to consider what you day. But when asked for those they have not been forthcoming.

As for the final proposal, I too am a bit disappointed. Yes, there could have been more included in the way of tasks, but is that a good enough reason to reject the proposal, to throw the baby out with the bathwater because something you proposed was ignored? I don't think so. There is just too much at stake, i.e., the future growth and vitality of the LSF.

I strongly urge you to vote YES on this proposal and help grow the LSF to make Soaring grow as this is what the LSF should be about..

Preston
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #550

  • Curtis Suter
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I strongly urge you to vote YES on this proposal and help grow the LSF.

Preston


I would like to add to make Soaring grow as this is what the LSF should be about.

Curtis
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #551

  • Preston Heller
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Curtis Suter wrote:

I strongly urge you to vote YES on this proposal and help grow the LSF.

Preston


I would like to add to make Soaring grow as this is what the LSF should be about.

Curtis


Added. ;)
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ESAP Proposal 3 years 11 months ago #552

  • Curtis Suter
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[quote="tMcCann" Maybe importers of cheap parkflyer foamie motorgliders should help foot the postage bill...[/quote]

Timm, I never write anything that I wouldn't say in a person-to-person conversation. You are getting the response you want and I'm happy to give it to you.

I'm glad this is for the most part a private forum as I hope you DO NOT represent Model Aviation as you are here. These are NOT motorgliders as you continually refer them too. Also, what's wrong with a foamy model? Larry Jolly says he can be competitive with one no matter the weather conditions? This is a hobby that needs representation to young and old alike in all the wonderful facets that it provides. Whether it is helicopters, Free Flight, Aero Tow, cars and the list goes on. As you and I being the long time experts of our hobby we should be representing what we do not with arrogance or bigotry to one facet of the hobby but to all things aviation/model related.

Merry Christmas and the Happiest of the Holiday Season
Curtis
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