TOPIC: ESAP Proposal

This thread is for questions and comments regarding the ESAP proposal described under the NEWS tab on the home page. The thread will be open until December 14, 2013.

Ed Anderson - LSF 8044

I favor the establishment of the ESAP program as outlined in the LSF memo as posted in the News section.

I would be happy to start a new program, I have been working on My LSF voucher for years and I hope to complete it one day.
For Me the LSF has always been about the journey and the people I have had the privilege to associate with not how fast I could complete a level...I am stuck at IV and one day I might get to the coveted level V.

Let's face the facts
Many of us are not getting any younger and There are many younger pilots out there that can help to keep this hobby we love alive.

And if we don't embrace some changes we will miss the thermal so I am for creating a new program and I know that there will be many more new friendship's developed on another new journey to an electric level V.

Clarence Ashcraft
LSF 7390 IV

Old member, but now glad to see the new program for us electric guys. Now maybe I can get that Bird of Time up and work on my levels.

Red Scholefield
LSF 412

Questions:

Will eSAP Level 4 and 5 achievers be able to vote to modify the traditional SAP as set forth in ARTICLE XII Section II “Super Requirements”?

Will members who achieve membership through eSAP be able to vote on ARTICLE XV - DISSOLUTION?

Section VI: Will there be a difference between an eSAP emblem and the traditional SAP emblem?

To answer the questions of the previous post:
To quote the Proposal: "There will be one LSF with two parallel SAP's". Therefore any one who attains the required Levels in either SAP may vote on those issues. No, there won't be a separate emblem for those in the ESAP.

I am a level III LSF 7071.
I have been inactive for more than a decade due to lack of interest in my area with string launched or hi-start models. However, we have close to 20 ALES enthusiasts! I have read the SAP rules again and read the proposed eSAP rules. I like the parallel program for many reasons and think it's a brilliant idea. I have looked at and compared the two programs and the scoring and it works, it works quite well as it has since the inception in the late 60's.

I have a couple suggestions:
Submissions and payment should be made available via a scanned submission form and then .pdf file emailed to the user showing approval/disapproval. I believe the folks who run the program are going to be overwhelmed with submissions when this new program is approved, hopefully.

Shirts long and short sleeve should be made available for purchase with a profit for the LSF. The folks who take/volunteer their time with the management of the LSF need to be profitable or at least break even. One of my favorite shirts from the 90's was the LSF shirt. It's well worn out now!

So my vote is 100% yes, lets have an eSAP in the LSF.

Curtis Suter
Montana

As Level V #30 I am strongly opposed to a parallel LSF standard of achievement for the electric sailplanes. While I recognize the need for acceptance of electric sailplanes in the soaring component, I feel that if there is not a distinction between the original SAP and the ESAP in representing oneself at a specific level, LSF will be demeaning to accomplishments of those who completed any level of accomplishment prior to the electric sailplane era. There is a skill component in winch launching that does not exist in the electric launch. And more importantly, there is a great deal of skill in knowing your ability and your plane’s performance to allow you to search for and find lift with the component that you might not get your plane back to a safe landing zone. With the electric sailplane, even though turning your motor back on will negate your attempt at that task, a pilot would have an unfair advantage over the non-electric sailplane with regard to this search parameter. I could support the establishment of a separate ELSF SAP with no combining previous achievements and accomplishments with an electric sailplane. A separate ELSF SAP would require those with electric sailplanes to start at Level I in the ELSF and levels of achievement would be differentiated by LSF and ELSF.

As a current Level III, with only my goal and return needed for my Level IV, I believe that having no distinction between non-electric and electric sailplanes in the same recognition levels in the LSF program is unfair and a “slap” to those who achieved LSF levels under the current SAP program. I do support the advancements in our sport with electric sailplanes, and in fact I will have a Mystique RES ready by spring, but I firmly believe this component in our sport needs to have a separate achievement program and recognition on completion of the levels. To change the degree of skill in launching and in searching for appropriate lift to achieve the tasks will effectively weaken the accomplishments of those already having achieved levels in LSF. I feel if this change is accepted as proposed, the pride felt by those in the current LSF program will be greatly affected. I would not feel proud to complete my Level IV, and possibly someday my Level V, with an electric sailplane. If I desired to pursue a standard of achievement with an electric sailplane, I would want it to be on a level playing field with other electric sailplanes and not incorporated into the current LSF program. I cannot support the current proposal but could support a separate stand-alone ELSF SAP where those using electric sailplanes would start the ELSF program at Level I and receive a designation at each level as ELSF and not just LSF.

BobR, and BarbR

Unless I'm misreading, the LSF eSAP proposal it DOES require one to start over at Level one in the eSAP program.

So I could be a LSF SAP Level III and LSF eSAP Level V.

Curtis