LarryJolly wrote: To all concerned.
While I hold the Board responsible for not taking a stronger stand this entire travesty of a proposal lies on the shoulders of Mr. Jim Deck. Jim asked for a meeting with me at Toledo last April, and told me of his new plan to incorporate ALES into the LSF program. He explained that he felt that the solution was to get a separate SAP for electric established and then in the future to incorporate the two SAP's into one. My position was that since the SAP expressly forbids motorized aircraft that there should never be any attempt to blend the two disciplines.
I see nothing in the proposal that suggests that the two programs would ever be blended. You expressed your concern and I don't see anything to support that concern. If you feel you have insights into the deeper darker evil of men's souls, well I don't have that. I can only judge based on the written word.
LarryJolly wrote: That is the reason that I was pushing for two distinct programs with different numbers, tasks , and decals for accomplishment. While I believe it contrary to the LSF's original mission to include powered aircraft, I could support a separate program strictly on the basis that the LSF has chosen to become the SIG for Electric Soaring.
After all the emotion and time spent on discussing an alternate program, I am of the opinion that Jim's only concern is getting ALES into the original SAP... He has not done anything to help build an interesting unique program for Electric Soarers. I am frustrated and angry that he has delivered such a poor proposal based on all of the excellent input from so many of you posting here.
As to whether the program should be unique in its tasks for e-pilots, I would not see that has a necessary element to the proposal. The clear design is to create an equivalent and parallel program. That would be my goal. The proposal seems to accomplish that.
I do think a unique numbering system would be best but not so important as to exclude the e-soaring community from LSF and the SIG.
If your goal is different than it will not meet your goal and I see why you would not support it.
LarryJolly wrote: By the way I am still of the opinion that this program can be challenged on the basis that the LSF numbering system is described as contingent on ones completion of Level one of the SAP... By using consecutive numbers and not starting a new numbering system for the ESAP the two programs are not unique and truly separate..
The amended version clearly says Level one of either program making it clear that there are two different and separate but equal programs within LSF.
Section 1c. – Amended Version
Membership in the LSF, once Level 1 in either the SAP or ESAP is attained, is for life. Deceased members’ numbers are retained.
LarryJolly wrote:
Jim has let us down and has presented a program that only fits the purpose of his very selfish interests... LJ
I think what you mean is that Jim did not meet your personal demands and therefore you are upset that your personal goals were not made the goals of LSF. So I think the word selfish does apply but I don't think Jim is the person to whom it should be directed.
Jim has certainly not let me down. And I presume Jim has worked with the rest of the board and what is presented is a consensus of what the board wants presented. If not, then that is a failing on the board's part but I see no evidence of that. While the proposal is not
exactly what I would want it is close enough to satisfy me as I feel the larger goal of getting e-soaring into LSF and the SIG is more important than the numbering system. But that is me, not you. I am certainly not going to throw a temper tantrum over it nor will I mount any personal attacks on anyone.
For those who wish to draw clear distinction to what program they are working, the LSF approves the adding of an E in front of the LSF level in any display of level achieved. See section 7, copied here.
Section 7 - Amended Version
Aspirants may not display any LSF insignia, but may participate in all organizational activities, subject to such rules and regulations as may
be imposed by these Bylaws, except that they may not vote or hold office.
Members may identify their LSF status by their LSF number followed by a Roman numeral indicating their highest LSF Level achieved. Members participating in the ESAP may add a capital “E” if they so desire.
Larry,
It is clear you will not be supporting the proposal. That is fine. You are one vote.
I do support the proposal. I am one vote. We cancel out. That leaves it for others do decide.