I'm pleased to see some very reasonable responses to the recent incendiary, insulting, rude posts. Moreover, the "facts" stated are questionable to flat wrong. I have no desire to argue the facts or get in a pissing contest with either Jolly or Gordy. Don Harbon has been a champion of reason and good humor. I hope to see him return to the task at hand. Ed, Ryan, Preston and others have been consistent reasonable contributors. I'm happy to see that people are not willing to let the recent nasty posts derail what is in my opinion best for soaring and LSF.
Don Harbon at one point talked about "do no harm". I still have a hard time understanding what harm will come to LSF or soaring by allowing e-gliders to participate. One of the things that I believe needs to be addressed to quiet the fears of some is that members participating in the ESAP cannot vote to change the current SAP. The original proposal posted in the "News" section should take care of adding ESAP and e-gliders. Adding part e: "LSF member may only vote to change the SAP they are participating in", would keep the original SAP safe and the accomplishments of those who have achieved level V undiminished. See post #347.
I also suggested adding: Article XII, add section 4:
The ESAP is provisional and may be modified by the affirmative vote of two-thirds of the Executive Board and subsequent concurrence of a simple majority of the votes cast by active members.
Again, I think it is too soon to lock in an ESAP. Having said that, I remain a fan of TK's original ESAP proposal. It's in post #184. While I expressed concern about the number of contestants required, I'm happy enough to support it as is to keep things simple and moving.
Ryan asked for feedback about a post suggesting possible ESAP tasks. I think that all this has become so convoluted that it's best at this point to follow the KISS principle referred to earlier. The ESAP can be modified later as needed.
Ed's summary is a good place to respond specifically:
I think LSF should embrace all forms of soaring -- Support
I think LSF should be the SIG for all forms of soaring to the AMA -- Support
I think LSF should embrace the goal of promoting soaring in all its various forms. -- Support
* eSAP and SAP have the same tasks but have different patches, decals, etc.
Not sure. TK's ESAP is similar but not matching. Please review TK's ESAP if you haven't recently. I don't think different patches and decals are necessary. The earlier proposal to simply show LSF IIIe should suffice. Frankly, I don't think it a big issue. I don't envision people displaying a level they haven't earned.
* Tasks for one do not count toward the other -- Support
* The launch height outlined in the current proposal is fine and is consistent with common practice and what is possible with pure gliders on a winch.
If you mean the launch height in TK's proposal I agree and support.
What about the restart question?
* For Levels 1, 2 and 3 - the pilot can have the restart set to on. If he restarts he fails the task. Period. -- Support
* For levels 4 and 5 tasks, restart must be disabled. -- Strongly disagree
* for all contests, the restart option will be according to the rules of the contest placing the LSF pilot on an equal footing with all the other pilots in the contest. It makes no sense to place an LSF 4 or 5 aspirant at a disadvantage in a contest just because he is working on eSAP 3, 4 and 5. -- Support
For level 4 and 5 tasks, once you are working on level 4 and 5 tasks you have demonstrated your skills and should be ready and confident to go out without a safety net, just like the pure glider guys. -- I don't think it's necessary, while it's not a great expense, it does involve another piece of gear, that may or may not be easy to access and change out. Mostly, I think it's not necessary to add this level of risk to very expensive gliders. If I have spent almost an hour or two trying to make the time and have two witnesses on hand, I'm not going to restart under any circumstances except to save my glider. The penalty of simply not making the task as you suggest for levels 1, 2, 3, is great enough.
Am I correct in assuming that the board will review all the posts and modify the current proposal listed in "News" if deemed wise and necessary? Will the modifications be posted ahead of the date to vote?
Respectfully
Barry Andersen
LSF 7319
AMA 1933 Contest Director; Leader-Admin
flying RC since 1959 (yep, built an ACE vacuum tube receiver, single channel escapement)