TOPIC: ESAP Proposal

dHarban wrote: We either have a standard or we don't.

I think 15 second motor run or 200 foot limiter climb is a reasonable standard. We can agree to disagree on that though. :)

dHarban wrote: And in 15 seconds, a stock Radian is only good for a little over 300 feet -- how is that inclusive?

I figure that is the equivalent of a Gentle Lady on a high start compared to a molded model on a good winch. There is as much variance in start altitude there as in the 6000 fpm example. When I did one of my 1 hour flights for L4 I did it with my Paragon and a buddy's really wimpy Dynaflight high start that got it to maybe 125 feet. I didn't feel disenfranchised from anyone that instead chose to use a moldie and a winch. I would have felt disenfranchised if I had to buy some sort of specific device for measuring the start.

helletp wrote: But there have to be limits. As others have said, $50 for a limiter
is no big deal.

A 15 second motor run would be a limit. I'm sure there are lots of people that have switches (I have one) but there are also lots more that don't have switches but do have an electric sailplane.





Ryan

So 1500 feet is OK with you?

What are we doing with the spot landings from a start perspective? Are we doing something similar to the SAP's 75 meter min length launch line, going to just leave it up to the witnesses best judgement, require that the models must start out at ~200 meters (aka no whimpy models that can't do 200 meters in 30 seconds allowed) or ?

Ryan

Ryan, they have to get a limiter (not necessarily an ALES specific one) to participate in contests, so where is the problem?

Preston

helletp wrote: Ryan, they have to get a limiter (not necessarily an ALES specific one) to participate in contests, so where is the problem?

This eSAP wouldn't include LMR or other types of electric contests?

Ryan

ryanw wrote: What are we doing with the spot landings from a start perspective? Are we doing something similar to the SAP's 75 meter min length launch line, going to just leave it up to the witnesses best judgement, require that the models must start out at ~200 meters (aka no whimpy models that can't do 200 meters in 30 seconds allowed) or ?

Ryan

As far as the spot landing is concerned it is easy enough to ask for a minimum launch height, e.g., 100 meters, then land. That's a good detail to have in there.

Preston

ryanw wrote:

helletp wrote: Ryan, they have to get a limiter (not necessarily an ALES specific one) to participate in contests, so where is the problem?

This eSAP wouldn't include LMR or other types of electric contests?

Ryan

Electric pylon racing would probably not be allow.
Does anyone still run LMR? If they do it's fine, as long as they follow the rules, i.e., 200M or 30 sec motor run.
Any other questions?

Preston

I'm asking about LMR without limiters. A great example would be a Radian one design contest where each pilot just gets a 30 second motor run (or whatever). Or a 30 mm outrunner event where each pilot gets a 30 second motor run.


Ryan

dHarban wrote: So 1500 feet is OK with you?

It is OK in the SAP so OK with me. From the launching I saw at the Muncie F3B contest this past Memorial Day those models on 300 feet of mono from those winches would launch to about 1500 feet.

If a person thinks a 1500 foot F3B model, a screaming F5B model, or trying to zoom out past a limiter is going to help them on a 30 or 60 minute flight I say more power to them. :)

But, if that is a real hang up for people, how about this alternative?

All thermal duration tasks will be attempted with an electric sailplane either equipped with an altitude limiting device set to a maximum launch height of 200 meters (656.17 feet) or via a timed motor run of 15 seconds. if an altitude limiting device is used then the maximum motor run time of 30 is seconds either verified by the witness or via the the altitude limiting device cutting off the motor run. The flight commences when the sailplane leaves the pilot or a helper’s hand or when the sailplane leaves the ground if a rise-off-ground takeoff is used. A motor restart will void the flight even if the task target is achieved. Starts that coast past 200 meters either with motor on or motor off in the best judgement of the witness will void the flight.

Ryan,
You are off by a factor of 2....It is 150 meters to the turnaround..No F3B ever got over 700'on a launch..LJ